Preamble Hello and welcome to a Champions League group game that is far from pointless. Just perhaps also not exactly fraught with unguessable drama.

The main point is this: United need one more win in Group B to be pretty much sure of topping it and getting a better draw in the next stage, albeit one that might still include Juventus, Lyon, Real Madrid and Inter. And if they get it tonight they can then send out assorted spindly youths, some people you will never see again and Michael Owen in their final game.

Besiktas have no point. They are here to enjoy the experience and perhaps, throwing off their mental chains like Howard Jones, they will experience an unusual sense of buoyancy and caper about Old Trafford like happy little forest creatures, fauns or wood sprites. Maybe they will even add to their tally of one goal from four matches.

They also have a player called "Inceman", who was perhaps created during a freak gene-splicing teleport accident involving one of Paul Ince's toenails and a mosquito.

Their coach Mustafa Denizli has said he is disappointed United are likely to field a bum-fluff-encrusted/old-lag-limping/Michael Owen kind of team. ""What I do know is that some of these guys will be stars in the future," he says. "When you are talking about Rafael I would say it is 100% guaranteed."

Which is nice of him to say. Dimitar Berbatov may return from a bout of being a bit tired. And it might also be interesting to see who gets a go in goal: sulky, want-away, increasingly sad-looking Ben Foster, or want-away, sad, increasingly sulky-looking Tomasz Kuszczak.

"We want an exciting game," Alex Ferguson has said and he's not the only one.

Maybe this is an interesting game, too, because United haven't exactly looked like an unstoppable attacking machine yet this year. I think they look quite linear after the dizzying future-football, pyramid-inverting rotations of the Ronaldo era.

Now it's strict 4-4-2 which, as Darren Fletcher claimed this week, makes them more dangerous – mainly because it's no longer Ronaldo coming at you, it's Darren Fletcher and Michael Carrick, freed from their defensive shackles.

Is that right? Are they anything other than hard to beat this season? Can Inceman save the day? We should at least know a little bit more in a few hours.

News too that Alex Ferguson might be facing his son Darren at the weekend if Portsmouth decide the most obvious answer to their current turmoil is the ex-manager of Peterborough. Weird situation in the offing. Never mind his cosy little clique with Big Sam and Big Steve Bruce. Now his own son. Will there be an urge to give Ferguson jr a little nudge on in his career? Not even a tiny bit?

Your teams tonight:
Man Utd Foster, Neville, Vidic, Brown, Rafael Da Silva, Obertan, Gibson, Anderson, Park, Macheda, Welbeck.
Subs Kuszczak, Evra, Owen, Carrick, Nani, Scholes, Fletcher.
Besiktas Recber, Kas, Ferrari, Toraman, Uzulmez, Fink, Ernst, Dag, Tello, Koybasi, Bobo.
Subs Celikay, Karadeniz, Rodrigo Tabata, Inceman, Yusuf Simsek, Guven, Zengin.
Ref Stephane Lannoy (France)

A bit of a mix-and-match from United. And Inceman is on the bench for Besiktas. If ever you're in trouble, if no one else can help. Maybe, you know, think about calling Inceman.

Phil West writes in the style of a good-humoured Turkish TV anchorman: "Good evening from Istanbul! Perhaps Man U should be a little wary tonight. Turkish teams tend to play better away from home and the chance to put one over on English opposition is always important here. In addition, Be*ikta* have started to play quite well over the last month. If Man U were so serious about finishing top of the group I think they should have put out an 80% first 11 and then used substitutes wisely once the game was safe." Which is all very interesting. But... Be*ikta*? Eh?

Fergie has just told ITV "I'm not relaxed". And he wants his strikers to be "aggressive" tonight. There's also a big "Respect" campaign sign behind him. Ha.

Also I notice Rustu is in goal. How old is he now? 45? He always had such dash. Looking forward to seeing if he still wears frightening vaguely tribal/NFL-style boot polish marks under his eyes.

On Inceman Mac Millings says: "Knowing the Turkish tongue as intimately as I do, I'm happy to inform you that "Inceman" is pronounced "In a-certain-reproductive-fluid". Let's hope Besiktas show some spunk. However, they'd better not shoot their bolt too soon." Eh? I am, again, confused and perhaps even in the circumstances quite proud of that fact. How is it pronounced then?

And what about this Obertan? I heard he was dodgy. I saw him play for ten minutes (on the TV) and he looked quite good. What's the answer. Is he up to it?

Alphabetical update from Phil West: "In Turkish there is an S with an accent below it, which results in S becoming SH. Similarly there is a C with an accent turning C (a soft J sound) becoming CH." Ah. Also Michael Stewart who played for Manchester United only to later eke out a mediocre career at Hearts writes "First, I'm not sure even Sir Alex could teach with unguessable drama. Secondly, the Guardian alphabet seems incapable of processing the cedilla 's' (*). It's just a Turkish character that sounds like 'sh.' So, Besh-ik-tash, not Besiktas. See? Thirdly, no, I never played for Manchester United only to eke out a mediocre career at Hearts."

Gareth Southgate is sitting in the ITV studio wearing a massive faded pink tie. It's as wide as his head. He is giggling almost girlishly with Andy Townsend, who I heard on the radio yesterday having opinions about rogue car-clamping cowboys ("It's bang out of order - these people are unregulated!").

Mac Millings doesn't need to worry about making infantile reproductive fluid jokes in relation to Inceman! Phil West adds: "Mac Millings needs to go back to okul (school). Inceman (The I has a dot over it - another Turkish peculiarity) is pronounced In-je-man." Fight! Fight! Sperm-related Inceman-based Turkish language fight!

The players are out and ready.

The commentator just said: "two 18-year-old up front for United! Fresh and young and excited!" Steady on.

1 min Besiktas kick off and there's an early touch for Foster in his turquoise two piece. He hurls it out and finds Obertan in loads of space on his Euro debut for United. He puts in an early low cross that just eludes Macheda six yards out. Great chance, good stuff from the mysterious Obertan.

3 mins Besiktas are wearing a strange chess board kind of shirt in black and grey. It is pretty rank to be honest. They haven't had much of a kick yet. Some nice possession from United. Welbeck and Obertan look lively already - as well as encouragingly tall and powerful.

5 mins Nice interchange between Bobo and Fink, who sound like an Eastern European mime duo, but Vidic puts in a monster of a tackle that manages to set up Macheda for a run on on the left wing. He finds Welbeck in the middle but he can't find the space for a shot.

7 mins A nice open breezy kind of game so far. But Edward Lee is worried: "Being a fan I am excited to see what the new batch of fledglings can do. But I wonder... Gary is at the back, and we have 2 young strikers in front, and 2 young midfielders. In the middle the 2 senior players, Park & Anderson are there to steady the ship and give direction. But will anyone understand them?? I mean Park & Anderson don't seem the really vocal type and with their accents we might have some mis-communication." Yes. More shouting.

9 mins Fink gets away from Gibson and has a shot from 25 yards but it's right at Foster. Right at Foster who also saves it. Worth mentioning. Anderson gave Gibson a right old earful there for letting him shoot. There's your answer maybe.

11 mins Some fluent attacking possession from the Turks. Uzulmez puts in a lovely deep cross from the left that Brown heads away and then Neville gets caught out by Bobo, who skips away from him but scuffs his shot wide. They look keen.

13 mins Down the other end Gibson takes a short corner and has a shot from 30 yards that deflects off Fink and swirls down on to the roof of the net, palmed over by Rustu, who looks a bit less frisky and mad these days and doesn't have his boot polish eye patches on. From the corner Vidic evades Ferrari but weirdly heads towards the corner flag from about six yards out.

15 mins Welbeck almost gets on the end of Obertan's cross but it's expertly defended by Toraman. And United are all over them suddenly, Gibson having another shot from 20 yards that bounces wide.

18 mins Lovely movement from United, with Anderson, Gibson and Obertan spinning about all over the place. Ends with Macheda beating two men and shooting wide. Nice stuff. And Robin Hazlehurst points out: "You say in the intro "...even overlooking his obvious and pretty much constant cheating, cajoling, revisionism and insulting remarks. You do, don't you. But surely this kind of thing hasn't ever happened before in football?" Did you mean the cheating etc hasn't happened before in football, or the overlooking of it? How Corinthian of you..." I meant the father-son managerial face-off. Footballers, of course, cheat all the time because it's part of the game.

20 mins GOAL FOR BESIKTAS!! Wow! It's kind of a wonder-goal and kind of perhaps a bit of a mistake from Foster as he's beaten from 30 yards. Tello picks up the ball in the inside left channel and belts it goalwards, it takes a deflection off Rafael and beats the lunging Foster. That came from nowhere.

22 mins That was a bit too easy. No real closing down on Tello and, to be honest, a chance to make a good save passed up. He just always looks unlucky Foster.

23 mins Welbeck jinks nicely and has a shot that hits the side netting. They're going to have to really get at this now, or Fergie will start bringing on Nani and the rest. Meanwhile Gary Naylor has a word on fledglings: "For all the media cheerleaders' talk of Manchester United's commitment to youth, how many genuine first teamers have they developed in the last, what, ten years? Darren Fletcher? Anyone else? If Jack Rodwell goes up the East Lancs Road in the summer (as many of us Bluenoses expect) Everton will have developed more Man Utd first teamers than SAF." Yay. Go. M-A-N. U-T-D. Sorry. Being a media cheerleader.

25 mins: United are still doing all the attacking. Welbeck looks very lively and willing. Lovely stuff between him and Macheda and Welbeck's cross is cut out at the last by the lunging Rustu. That was top class attacking. Moments later Park has another shot blocked after a nice pass from Vidic. And Gary Naylor is on fire: "Ben Foster is the best English keeper? You just have to be kidding. He was too far across to his left, wasn't on his toes for the deflection, showed no anticipation and lacked the athleticism to stop a shot that went into pretty much the middle of the goal at no great pace." Maybe a bit harsh. But it did look soft that ending up in the net.

29 mins Well, apart from the goal Besiktas have done nothing here. Some very nice enterprising attacking from United and one could-be-might-be goalkeeping blunder. Foster seems to have a bit of the same thing as Paul Robinson: easily beaten from distance. Meanwhile Obertan does 15 rapid fire step-overs Ronaldo style, and eventually gets played through by Park. Rustu saves brilliantly with his legs. Really good save that.

31 mins United continue to hound the Turkish defence. This is a 0-1 drubbing right now.

33 minsThe only real weak link out there for United (not including the goalie) is Rafael on his wrong flank. The rest look very nifty. Just wonder if Anderson and Gibson have the drive in midfield to get forward and support the two teenage strikers. And John Cummins is striking back against Gary Naylor. "John O'Shea did start the Champions League final, so even though he sucks, I guess you'd have to say he's a "first teamer". I would also say that this current crop of youngsters is the most exciting since the Giggs, Scholes and co."

35 mins Surging break from the Turks, Bob finds Tello, who crosses but it;s nowhere near Fink and Brown heads away. Slippery, dangerous stuff though, and all down their right again. Lots of people have pointed out why Naylor might be feeling testy. Yes. 3-0 down. Already. And to them as well. You lot don't miss a trick do you?

38 mins Gibson has a wild shot from 20 yards that flies away into the crowd more like a balloon or a lightweight inflatable . Raggzeit says: "Reasonably impressed with Obertan so far. Why were Bordeaux prepared to sell him so cheaply as presumably lord ferg envisages a big future?" I agree. He looks good. And Gary Naylor says, yes, he knows - and said it first actually.

40 mins Lovely play from Besiktas: Fink picks up a nice little lay-off from Bobo and hits the outside of the post with a low shot when he should have scored. Adam Walker writes on the question of the United "yoot":" "There are an awful lot of players from UTD's youth who, may not make it at UTD's first team, but go onto other good sides and get into their first team... this is because, UTD do produce a high quality level of youth player, but they aren't always strong enough to take a risk on. A few recent names include: Richardson, Rossi, Campbell, Greening, Eagles, Shawcross".

42 mins Obertan makes a little bit of space and has a shot that pings wide. Then Macheda finds Welbeck beautifully and he sets up Obertan for a cross that flies over everyone's heads. United have lost that urgency now. They need a half time yodeling from you know who. On Foster Mark Quinn adds: "I would add to that Robinson comparison. Easily beaten from distance, bad positioning, weak hands, uncomfortable with crosses, uneasy with passbacks, lacking in authority...you get the picture." Is he right?

45 mins Half time. No injury time at all and everyone troops off looking a little perplexed (United) perky (Besiktas) and red-faced and cross (Fergie).

I'm going to get myself a chunky Kit-Kat and a cup of frankly vile tea. And can everyone lay off Naylor while I do. He's reeling you in. Don't bite. Oh, he does also say "John O'Shea made his debut in the 90s".

I'm also going to compose my own formal apology to Phil Brown for suggesting he was in some way washed up and frankly a bit of a twit when in fact he's a tactical genius and an inspiration to men.

Paul McGrory seems cross: "Would you be able tell me why Manchester United fans feel the need to call them UTD in stupid capitals? Even as a United fan I find it incredibly irritating. I mean, if its in capitals, what does it stand for? Unable to Type Decently? Unfortunate Thumb Disease? Utter Twat Debating?" Is that harsh?

And Greg Scully is also concerned about all the [adopts Tony Blackburn-style voice] young people out there: "Speaking of the young players who do or do not cut the mustard at OT, whatever happened to Rodrigo?  Has he gone back to playing the guitar or what? Oh, and does anybody else think that Foster looks like Jamie Carragher? Same hangdog expression everytime he gets caught out of position for sure..." He does always seem to look sad and lost and tearful. Does he have a happy face?

Fergie says they just need "a bit of composure... They're all young you see". He's a lovable old kindly Santa Claus.

46 mins United kick off and they keep the ball for a bit. Quite looking forward to seeing what these lot can do. Hope he doesn't bring on the cavalry too soon.

48 mins Some good early pressure from United. Obertan again finds space on the left wing and plays in a low cross that Toraman hacks away from the lurking Park. How long before we see Inceman?

50 mins Anderosn and Gibson getting a little muscled out on occasion by the very compact Turkish midfield. And Besiktas have just had their best spell of possession of the match, which ends with Gibson fouling Tello. The free-kick is a scuffed waste and is headed away. And on foster being England's best goalie Katja says: "Look at it this way: Sir Ferguson is a Scotsman, Gary Naylor seems to be forgetting that. I'd say Sir Alex's comment on the ranking of English goalkeepers is merely some cunning sort of patriotic revenge."

52 mins Macheda and Welbeck link quite nicely on the edge of the box but Welbeck is crowded out by a well organised defence and he shoots wildly over the bar. Obertan looks good but there is a lack of real cutting edge in attack as you might expect. Besiktas actually look more incisive right now when they do attack.

54 mins Another frustrated foul on Bobo by Gibson. He should have been booked for that. Free kick in a dangerous position. Is it Tello country?

55 mins It's Tello wumping it over the bar country. But still some good attacking pressure from the Turks who have got a taste for it now. Changes coming I think.

58 mins Forceful break from Gibson, carrying the ball forward from the back ends with Park having a go with his left foot chocolate leg and putting it in about Row K. But more purpose there to still the Old Trafford murmurs. And Fred Lane asks "Does Gary Naylor get a monthly salary from GU, or is he paid per mention on MBM? If the latter - Gary Naylor, Gary Naylor, Gary Naylor..." No. And that's .003p into the Naylor retirement fund. More industry from Park, who tries to take a one-two with Obertan and shoot in one movement but ends up falling over. Nice pressure though.

61 mins Obertan dances - literally dances - through the middle and has a shot that Rustu dives to palm for a corner. That was really smooth. He looks very good on the ball. Best chances of the night for United have come through him.

64 mins Toraman has gone down with a blood soaked piece of gauze on his forehead. He got Obertan's bony elbow in his face and he might be going off. Definitely promising Obertan, even if he does look quite weird and slightly malnourished.

66 mins Obertan has another shot from the edge of the box that goes for a corner and Besiktas are defending quite deep now. First chance: Park goes off and Owen comes on. Welbeck will play on the left.

69 mins Owen in the action right away beetling about to good effect but playing a hospital pass to Anderson that almost kills both the Brazilian and Kas. Gibson takes the free-kick but hits it at Rustu who catches dramatically. It's all gone a bit quiet out there now. Carrick is warming up.

71 mins Tello has done his ankle landing awkwardly. Lots of boos from the crowd. And Kevin O'Connor is prepared to defend John O'Shea's honour: "He's been ten years at Utd(UTD). Won a huge amount of silverware.Scored in massive games. Ferguson fancies him as captain. He seems a bloody nice bloke and he did this to Figo. To me that's impressive. John Cummins @ 33 mins and his ilk can, to use a British euphemism, do one." Get him. Gibson and Rafael off. Evra and Carrick on.

74 mins Time for one last decent push from United if they can get the ball and get some momentum going. Obertan is released by Neville's lovely pass but shoots into the side netting. And here he is coming on for Tello: its Inceman. Or In-chi-man if you work for ITV.

76 mins Evra is playing as a winger, which he was originally and where he can probably still do a pretty high class job. He almost plays in Welbeck for a shot from distance. And ha ha Bobo plays a really amusing disguised dummy pass straight out of play. Very funny. He kicked the ball to... nobody.

78 mins No real drive to United's attacks at the moment. Obertan has gone over to the right but he's not really had the ball there. Owen, as ever, is running around looking small and frail and not really seeming to do much.

80 mins Free kick to United 30 yards out to the left of goal. Carrick side foots a fairly weak low effort and Besiktas rumble forwards behind the ball. That was poor. No free-kick whizzes in this United team.

81 mins A rare two-man break from Besiktas and Inceman fails to play in Bobo, who was well-placed. Inceman failed to save not just the day, but pretty much anything there. But a vaguely heroic effort. United break back down the other end and Evra has a low shot from 35 yards that Rustu chucks his metaphorical cap on.

83 mins Neville puts in a vintage right wing cross that just about evades Macheda, who p[asses up the chance to dive headlong and power a courageous Joe Jordan-style header into the back of the net. Karadeniz comes on for his debut in this competition - and he's booked after 14 seconds for time-wasting! A fine effort.

85 mins Evra sprints into the box and is blocked by Kas but oddly the ref waves play on when he might have given a penalty and should have given obstruction. Everybody shouts a lot and Evra waves his arms about but nothing doing. No real sense they're going to do this as yet.

87 mins Lots of anguished square passing from United and some energetic wiffling about up front but it's not really going anywhere. And a Goodison-themed quip from Gary Naylor: "In-chi-man? It's not Adrian Heath is it?"

89 mins Evra does some galloping, seep-over work on the wing and then just runs the ball out of play. A long unbeaten run looks like it's coming to an end out there - and to the least likely team. But Besiktas have defended well and looked neat on the ball. Obertan works some space well but his shot is just blah and it's blocked by a thigh.

90 mins Five minutes of injury time. You never know. Roars from the fretful United hoards.

91 mins Some neat passing ends with Carrick shooting well over, under pressure from the flying Inceman. And ha Greg Scully's getting his own back on the Evra non-penalty: "Maybe the referee will give it to him on the playstation later..."

93 mins Brilliant move involving Owen and Anderson ends with Macheda heading towards goal and seeing Rustu palm it over. From the corner Foster comes forward and watches as Brown heads powerfully towards goal - but again Rustu saves really well. At last he's in the game. United do deserve a share of this but they probably won't get it now.

95 mins Macheda picks up the ball on the left wing and squares for Carrick to have a shot but it's easily grasped by Rustu. That should be it.

96 mins FULL TIME And that really is it. Besiktas celebrate on the pitch as well they might. They've defended very soundly and gained a famous victory. United will go into their final game needing to get a point to finish top of the group.

And that's all from me for now. Thanks for all your emails and goodbye.